| LGBT Outreach |
| Thoughts on Homosexuality |
Note: This page has some of my preliminary thoughts on homosexuality. A
more recent perpective can be gained by visiting this page.
Some thoughts…
I have talked with many lgbt individuals at gay pride events and I have visited
Side A churches . I have found that most lesbian, gay, bisexual, and
transgender individuals are very welcoming of all people from all walks of
life. Additionally I have dialogued with many lgbt individuals on line. In my
dialogs with them in on-line forums and blogs I have found them to be very
intelligent, politically wise, and very honest in their search for answers
concerning their sexuality. So I would advise you to do away with any
stereotypes you may have of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender
individuals. Other than their attractions or gender identity questions they are
no different than you
Some questions…
Is being a homosexual a sin? Isn’t it a choice?
Being lgbt or having same sex attractions is not sin because no one chooses
their attractions or desires. Same sex attractions are not a choice anymore
than heterosexual attractions are. For those that are asking this question I
would ask you some questions:
I believe your answer would be that these attractions, these desires just
happened. And that is the same answer that a gay person would give you.
Attractions are not sin.
Are people born gay?
This is the subject of an endless on going debate with each side quoting
research. I do not believe a definitive conclusion has been reached.
Whether you are born gay or whether sexual orientation is the result of a
complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors like
Love Won Out and the APA claims doesn’t matter. The lgbt individual did
not ask for these feelings. Nor did they ask for these attractions. However it
happened it’s a part of them..
Why don’t they just change their attractions?
Try changing your attractions. While it is true that the lgbt individual can
make choices about what to do with their orientation they cannot easily
change their attractions (many believe it is impossible). Some have tried .
Testimonies at this webpage will tell you that the journey was very difficult
and took a long time. Testimonies at this webpage will tell you that many
were unable to achieve this and actually experienced harm financially,
spiritually and emotionally in attempting to do so.
Having said all of this I refuse to reject those few who have claimed to
experience change. Human sexuality is much more complex than either side
is often willing to admit. Just because someone presents themselves as
straight doesn’t mean that they are. I think we all know of people who were
married for years to a person of the opposite sex and then left the marriage
and pursued a same sex relationship. Likewise there are stories of people
who presented themselves as gay but later went straight. Who am I to say
what is true in their lives? For an excellent discussion of this from a lesbian
pastoral Side A perspective see this website.
I appreciate what this pastor is saying. While she rejects gay-to-straight
ministries such as Exodus she refuses to reject people’s journeys. Her
reasoning is excellent and shows a pastor’s heart when working with people.
Though the article is old the responses are quite new and she goes into great
detail as to why she believes what she does.
I know that some will not be happy with my answer to the above question.
Please understand that God is calling me to be a peacemaker in this. This
whole mess started because we in the church made presumptions about lgbt
individuals. The survey responses and multiple testimonies on-line show that
many who are lgbt were pushed out of the church because they were different
and the church rejected them. I am not going to do this again. However I am
cautious of exgay theology since many have been harmed when change did not
occur. So, acceptance of people does not necessarily mean acceptance of
ideology. But we are called to love all peoople
If you think about it these divisions happen because we make assumptions
about each other rather than seek to understand each other . Side B
heterosexuals assume that they understand lgbt individuals. Side A lgbt
individuals assume they understand ex gay individuals. And exgay individuals
assume that they understand and speak for all lgbt individuals. Each group
wants to fix the other group's belief or mindset or orientation. This gets us
nowhere.
But can’t they change their desires? I have heard that this is possible.
What you have heard and what is reality are two different things. Exodus
only reports a 15% success rate in orientation change (see article). By the
way, the article I am sending you to claims that Exodus is a wiser and older
movement. A more accurate statement would be that they got caught being
less than wise. When they went political it gave them more attention than
they expected. And news agencies investigating the so called changes found
that more often than not that it didn’t happen. So Exodus is changing their
tune on just what they mean by change. There are many that would dispute
that 15% figure. Especially since Exodus is now calling this ‘change’ a life
long journey or to quote the article: "a meaningful but complicated"
heterosexuality" Additionally, some who were originally involved in Exodus
have renounced their position on change.
Again, I am not discounting the journeys of those who do claim to have made
a real change. I am discounting the false impressions that have been given by
ministries such as this one. With an issue like this we need to be honest with
each other.
Why can’t they just have a heterosexual marriage?
Some have tried to do this. It often ends in much heartache and divorce with
the straight spouse wondering all along what was wrong with them that their
marriage partner just couldn’t relate to them and love them.
What about celibacy?
Well those who are Side B would expect this to be a biblical response and
there are gay Side B Christians who have chosen this direction.
Just realize what we are asking lgbt individuals to do. We are telling them:
You can never have a significant other. You can never have sex. You can
never have a family. You can never have someone to share your life with.
The Side B heterosexual single Christian never knows when that significant
person will come into their life. But for the lgbt Christian, we are saying that
they can never have a relationship. Some have called this cruel.
You said earlier that you were called to be a peacemaker in this. How you can
possibly hope to accomplish this.
It has already been accomplished in other forums. I would especially refer
you to Gay Christian network. On this network Gay Side A and Gay Side B
Christians do get along. I have seen a rather negative attitude toward ex gays
but I believe this is due to the bad experiences many of them have had in
exgay ministries. Hopefully this attitude will change in the future as God
continues to build bridges between people.
If you would like further study I would refer you to these two essays, one by a
Side A Gay Christian man and the other by a Side B Gay Christian Man.
You called Side A gay individuals Christian. How can you do that? Don’t you
believe Side A gay Christians are automatically going to hell because they are
acting on their attractions.
No, I do not believe they are automatically going to hell because they are
acting on their attractions. If people were automatically going to hell because
their sexual morality didn’t lineup with scripture you would lose many of the
people in the Old Testament. Some examples of these would be people like
Abraham with multiple wives and concubines (Genesis 16:1-3, 25:1-6) and
people like King David who also had multiple wives and concubines. ( 1
Samuel 19:11 , 1 Samuel 25:38-42, 2 Samuel 3:5, 2 Samuel 11-12, 1 Samuel 25:
43, 2 Samuel 3:1-4.2 Samuel 5:12-16) I am not saying sexual morality is
unimportant. Scripture indicates that holiness is tied into our sexual morality
(see 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8)
Even today there are many things that Christians do that do not honor God
(see my page: Grace Factor) There are Christians (heterosexual) in classes I
lead that are not living totally according to what I believe is in God’s word.
Although this concerns me I am not worried about them losing their
salvation. The reason I am not worried is because they are growing in Christ.
Additionally, if you are from a faith tradition that believes in eternal security
I am surprised you would even ask the question. I do not believe in eternal
security but I also do not believe that any of us has arrived yet at perfect
Christlikeness. We are all on a journey to become more and more like
Christ. Wesleyans call this 'ongoing sanctification' or 'growth in grace'. The
lgbt Christian is journeying in Christ just like the straight Christian is. As
long as we are following Him according to what we know, we are secure in His
salvation. However, if God convicts us in any of these areas mentioned (and
other areas not mentioned) that we are sinning and we fail to repent then I
believe our security in Christ could be at risk (James 4:17) .
But isn’t homosexual sex a willful choice? And won’t God judge accordingly?
Well that is an interesting question. After all, God is judge and He will judge
all of us one day. But if God judges the way you are implying it will not be a
good day for the church. How will God judge those who willfully choose not to
tithe? How will God judge those who willfully choose not to serve Him? How
will God judge those who are not being chaste until marriage? How will God
judge those who have willfully chosen to divorce? And how will God judge
those who have gone beyond His word and have willfully vilified and slandered
people who are lgbt? There is plenty of judgment to go around if that is what
you want.
Random thoughts and musings
Imagine if......
Imagine yourself (a straight person) going to a gay pride event… Think about
this for a moment …………..
Do you feel the apprehension? Do you feel the tension within yourself? Do
you sense the questions bubbling up in your soul such as:
If these are your worries guess what? … You have just experienced for one
tiny moment what it is like to be gay and have society look down on you and
have the church condemn you. Realize that you can avoid all of this by simply
not going to the Gay Pride event because you are not gay. You can avoid the
whole issue and sit comfortably in your church.
But while the lgbt person could also choose to avoid the event they cannot
avoid the issue. This person did not choose to be this way. This is something
they live with as part of who they are. They live with it in the church pew
when they hear sermons about homosexuality being sin. They live with it in
Sunday school classes when people act like homosexuality is the worst sin of
all (it isn’t). They live with it at gay events where street preachers are
spewing out venomous condemnation (see link). They live with it at work
when they hear unkind gay jokes and statements. For the lgbt individual it is
not just some abstract theological discussion. It is their life. Please think
about this the next time you are about to make an anti gay comment.
Side A Churches..
I have visited Side A churches. I have found these churches to be very
welcoming and very friendly. If you were to visit them you might be surprised
at what you find. They believe in the same Jesus you do. They believe in the
same trinity you do. They believe in the same virgin birth that you do. The
celebrate the same resurrection that you do. They believe in the same
justification by faith that you do. They sing much of the same songs that you
do. They have communion like you do. They sing about the blood of Jesus
washing away sin just like you do. They take offerings, have prayer meetings,
and have bible studies just like you do. Some of them have traditional and
contemporary services. Other than the fact that they are lgbt there is no
difference. I will admit that I have seen some (but not all) Side A churches
believing that there is more than one path (other than Christ) to God. But
there are Side B churches that do that as well.
Stop back and revisit this page as I will probably add to it from time to time. I
would also recommend the glbt reference page
more recent perpective can be gained by visiting this page.
Some thoughts…
I have talked with many lgbt individuals at gay pride events and I have visited
Side A churches . I have found that most lesbian, gay, bisexual, and
transgender individuals are very welcoming of all people from all walks of
life. Additionally I have dialogued with many lgbt individuals on line. In my
dialogs with them in on-line forums and blogs I have found them to be very
intelligent, politically wise, and very honest in their search for answers
concerning their sexuality. So I would advise you to do away with any
stereotypes you may have of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender
individuals. Other than their attractions or gender identity questions they are
no different than you
Some questions…
Is being a homosexual a sin? Isn’t it a choice?
Being lgbt or having same sex attractions is not sin because no one chooses
their attractions or desires. Same sex attractions are not a choice anymore
than heterosexual attractions are. For those that are asking this question I
would ask you some questions:
- When did you choose to be heterosexual?
- When did you choose to have heterosexual attractions?
I believe your answer would be that these attractions, these desires just
happened. And that is the same answer that a gay person would give you.
Attractions are not sin.
Are people born gay?
This is the subject of an endless on going debate with each side quoting
research. I do not believe a definitive conclusion has been reached.
Whether you are born gay or whether sexual orientation is the result of a
complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors like
Love Won Out and the APA claims doesn’t matter. The lgbt individual did
not ask for these feelings. Nor did they ask for these attractions. However it
happened it’s a part of them..
Why don’t they just change their attractions?
Try changing your attractions. While it is true that the lgbt individual can
make choices about what to do with their orientation they cannot easily
change their attractions (many believe it is impossible). Some have tried .
Testimonies at this webpage will tell you that the journey was very difficult
and took a long time. Testimonies at this webpage will tell you that many
were unable to achieve this and actually experienced harm financially,
spiritually and emotionally in attempting to do so.
Having said all of this I refuse to reject those few who have claimed to
experience change. Human sexuality is much more complex than either side
is often willing to admit. Just because someone presents themselves as
straight doesn’t mean that they are. I think we all know of people who were
married for years to a person of the opposite sex and then left the marriage
and pursued a same sex relationship. Likewise there are stories of people
who presented themselves as gay but later went straight. Who am I to say
what is true in their lives? For an excellent discussion of this from a lesbian
pastoral Side A perspective see this website.
I appreciate what this pastor is saying. While she rejects gay-to-straight
ministries such as Exodus she refuses to reject people’s journeys. Her
reasoning is excellent and shows a pastor’s heart when working with people.
Though the article is old the responses are quite new and she goes into great
detail as to why she believes what she does.
I know that some will not be happy with my answer to the above question.
Please understand that God is calling me to be a peacemaker in this. This
whole mess started because we in the church made presumptions about lgbt
individuals. The survey responses and multiple testimonies on-line show that
many who are lgbt were pushed out of the church because they were different
and the church rejected them. I am not going to do this again. However I am
cautious of exgay theology since many have been harmed when change did not
occur. So, acceptance of people does not necessarily mean acceptance of
ideology. But we are called to love all peoople
If you think about it these divisions happen because we make assumptions
about each other rather than seek to understand each other . Side B
heterosexuals assume that they understand lgbt individuals. Side A lgbt
individuals assume they understand ex gay individuals. And exgay individuals
assume that they understand and speak for all lgbt individuals. Each group
wants to fix the other group's belief or mindset or orientation. This gets us
nowhere.
But can’t they change their desires? I have heard that this is possible.
What you have heard and what is reality are two different things. Exodus
only reports a 15% success rate in orientation change (see article). By the
way, the article I am sending you to claims that Exodus is a wiser and older
movement. A more accurate statement would be that they got caught being
less than wise. When they went political it gave them more attention than
they expected. And news agencies investigating the so called changes found
that more often than not that it didn’t happen. So Exodus is changing their
tune on just what they mean by change. There are many that would dispute
that 15% figure. Especially since Exodus is now calling this ‘change’ a life
long journey or to quote the article: "a meaningful but complicated"
heterosexuality" Additionally, some who were originally involved in Exodus
have renounced their position on change.
Again, I am not discounting the journeys of those who do claim to have made
a real change. I am discounting the false impressions that have been given by
ministries such as this one. With an issue like this we need to be honest with
each other.
Why can’t they just have a heterosexual marriage?
Some have tried to do this. It often ends in much heartache and divorce with
the straight spouse wondering all along what was wrong with them that their
marriage partner just couldn’t relate to them and love them.
What about celibacy?
Well those who are Side B would expect this to be a biblical response and
there are gay Side B Christians who have chosen this direction.
Just realize what we are asking lgbt individuals to do. We are telling them:
You can never have a significant other. You can never have sex. You can
never have a family. You can never have someone to share your life with.
The Side B heterosexual single Christian never knows when that significant
person will come into their life. But for the lgbt Christian, we are saying that
they can never have a relationship. Some have called this cruel.
You said earlier that you were called to be a peacemaker in this. How you can
possibly hope to accomplish this.
It has already been accomplished in other forums. I would especially refer
you to Gay Christian network. On this network Gay Side A and Gay Side B
Christians do get along. I have seen a rather negative attitude toward ex gays
but I believe this is due to the bad experiences many of them have had in
exgay ministries. Hopefully this attitude will change in the future as God
continues to build bridges between people.
If you would like further study I would refer you to these two essays, one by a
Side A Gay Christian man and the other by a Side B Gay Christian Man.
You called Side A gay individuals Christian. How can you do that? Don’t you
believe Side A gay Christians are automatically going to hell because they are
acting on their attractions.
No, I do not believe they are automatically going to hell because they are
acting on their attractions. If people were automatically going to hell because
their sexual morality didn’t lineup with scripture you would lose many of the
people in the Old Testament. Some examples of these would be people like
Abraham with multiple wives and concubines (Genesis 16:1-3, 25:1-6) and
people like King David who also had multiple wives and concubines. ( 1
Samuel 19:11 , 1 Samuel 25:38-42, 2 Samuel 3:5, 2 Samuel 11-12, 1 Samuel 25:
43, 2 Samuel 3:1-4.2 Samuel 5:12-16) I am not saying sexual morality is
unimportant. Scripture indicates that holiness is tied into our sexual morality
(see 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8)
Even today there are many things that Christians do that do not honor God
(see my page: Grace Factor) There are Christians (heterosexual) in classes I
lead that are not living totally according to what I believe is in God’s word.
Although this concerns me I am not worried about them losing their
salvation. The reason I am not worried is because they are growing in Christ.
Additionally, if you are from a faith tradition that believes in eternal security
I am surprised you would even ask the question. I do not believe in eternal
security but I also do not believe that any of us has arrived yet at perfect
Christlikeness. We are all on a journey to become more and more like
Christ. Wesleyans call this 'ongoing sanctification' or 'growth in grace'. The
lgbt Christian is journeying in Christ just like the straight Christian is. As
long as we are following Him according to what we know, we are secure in His
salvation. However, if God convicts us in any of these areas mentioned (and
other areas not mentioned) that we are sinning and we fail to repent then I
believe our security in Christ could be at risk (James 4:17) .
But isn’t homosexual sex a willful choice? And won’t God judge accordingly?
Well that is an interesting question. After all, God is judge and He will judge
all of us one day. But if God judges the way you are implying it will not be a
good day for the church. How will God judge those who willfully choose not to
tithe? How will God judge those who willfully choose not to serve Him? How
will God judge those who are not being chaste until marriage? How will God
judge those who have willfully chosen to divorce? And how will God judge
those who have gone beyond His word and have willfully vilified and slandered
people who are lgbt? There is plenty of judgment to go around if that is what
you want.
Random thoughts and musings
Imagine if......
Imagine yourself (a straight person) going to a gay pride event… Think about
this for a moment …………..
Do you feel the apprehension? Do you feel the tension within yourself? Do
you sense the questions bubbling up in your soul such as:
- What if someone sees me?
- What if someone thinks I am gay?
- What if your mother finds out you were there?
- What if your father finds out where you went?
- What if your work friends find out?
- Do you feel the shame or apprehension?
If these are your worries guess what? … You have just experienced for one
tiny moment what it is like to be gay and have society look down on you and
have the church condemn you. Realize that you can avoid all of this by simply
not going to the Gay Pride event because you are not gay. You can avoid the
whole issue and sit comfortably in your church.
But while the lgbt person could also choose to avoid the event they cannot
avoid the issue. This person did not choose to be this way. This is something
they live with as part of who they are. They live with it in the church pew
when they hear sermons about homosexuality being sin. They live with it in
Sunday school classes when people act like homosexuality is the worst sin of
all (it isn’t). They live with it at gay events where street preachers are
spewing out venomous condemnation (see link). They live with it at work
when they hear unkind gay jokes and statements. For the lgbt individual it is
not just some abstract theological discussion. It is their life. Please think
about this the next time you are about to make an anti gay comment.
Side A Churches..
I have visited Side A churches. I have found these churches to be very
welcoming and very friendly. If you were to visit them you might be surprised
at what you find. They believe in the same Jesus you do. They believe in the
same trinity you do. They believe in the same virgin birth that you do. The
celebrate the same resurrection that you do. They believe in the same
justification by faith that you do. They sing much of the same songs that you
do. They have communion like you do. They sing about the blood of Jesus
washing away sin just like you do. They take offerings, have prayer meetings,
and have bible studies just like you do. Some of them have traditional and
contemporary services. Other than the fact that they are lgbt there is no
difference. I will admit that I have seen some (but not all) Side A churches
believing that there is more than one path (other than Christ) to God. But
there are Side B churches that do that as well.
Stop back and revisit this page as I will probably add to it from time to time. I
would also recommend the glbt reference page
Missional Church